D.O.F
You've probably heard of D.O.M.S. - Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness. This is what you experience two days after lifting weights after several weeks off. You're sore and stiff for a couple of days, but it doesn't happen immediately after lifting.
I think there may be something along the same lines I'd call D.O.F. - Delayed Onset Fatigue. I see this in other athletes and myself a lot. The day after a very hard workout or race the athlete doesn't feel too bad and the training reflects that sensation. But the following day, two days after the killer workout, the fatigue is really a heavy burden. It's all the athlete can do to get through it. I've never seen this discussed before but I see it too often not to be real.
I'm curious. What's your experience? Ever have this happen to you?
posted by Joe Friel @ 5:10 PM
40 Comments
40 Comments:
Yep, happens to me after pretty much every 6 hour solo enduro I do - had a fair bit of experience with this last year when I did 9 of them in the year. Sunday race, Monday I'd come in to work and be fine. Tuesday was harder around the office than Monday. But then I'll typically be fully rested again on Wednesday and ready to race.
Yes, this happened to me after my past olympic distance race. I PR'd in it by a good chunk of time and I felt great afterwards. The next day was not bad but I knew I raced the day before. But the next day was brutal, I had to change from a tempo ride to a recovery ride after about a minute cause I knew I was not going to be able to make it!
yep, I aggree. that is exactly why rest days are so hard in stage races. I have found I always have a bad day on day 3 of a stage race, then good again on day for or five. It is as if you body is in survival mode, then a bit of rest causes it to shut down and it can't get going agian..
yes, 2 days after a hard workout is always the worst.
Definitely has happened to me on about 36 to 48 hours after completing a really long ride where I am pushed to the limits. Usually I'll be having a normal day and feeling fine, and then it's like I got hit by a train. I often find myself stuck on the couch for the rest of that day. It's a very heavy level of fatigue that I usually don't experience.
Definitely would be very interesting in the experiences of others.
Hey Joe! I read somewhere that peak soreness is 24-36 hours after an activity, whether it be weights, an event or what. Since then I have experienced that over and over, especially after a hard work-out or event following a break or a period of inactivity. No scientific studies to reference, just know that I've read it and experienced it.
I look forward to checking out your blog. Just stumbled upon it
Of course,
it's normal :) the only method to get out with that feeling is long low intensitiy aerobic session.
I've always planned on the 'delayed onset' of fatigue on the second day after a killer ride.
I feel worse if I don't workout (ride) the day after the big day. My muscles need to knock some lactic out and get a stretch.
The discipline of the next day workout has always been a part of my running & cycling training. I think that if I don't work out that next day I will have hell to pay on the 'second day after.'
Sat: 90 miles w. 8500' climbing in mtns. with high heat.
Sun: 2H. fast ride with local club
Mon: oh hell, I'm sore.
Hi
This delay is something I experience after an IM race. Last race in Almere I felt ok the day after the race. Sure, I was sore and had a hard time walking but I could move around. But the second day I could hardly get out of bed.
This one day delay is something I've experienced every long race so far.
Thanks for an interesting blog.
Stefan, Sweden
This is exactly what happens to me. The day after I have a particularly hard workout, I feel fine, but 2-3 days later it's like I've been hit by a truck.
That's a very typical situation for me, in fact, the day after a race I often think I feel even stronger. This has made me think of a number of questions, should I have a really hard day before a race to replicate this "high" feeling? or, should I make use of the day after a race for another strong workout and turn it into a block?
I usually recover from the heavy fatigue day normally after doing a light recovery session. J.R
Frequently, on both scores! I am a 50 year old competitive cyclist and I suffer from DOMS but have learnt how to avoid it (mostly!) I've just started my "off-season" and have commenced weights, plyometrics and hiking in the British hills but am still riding the bike as well. I've learnt to spend a month carefully getting myself back into using the different muscle groups, just what you would call anatomical adaption. If I take this structured approach I only suffer from manageable discomfort, but not crippling pain. Cross training always reminds me how few muscles cycling really uses and that as a masters cyclist its important to look after core strength, bone density etc.
I can also really relate to DOF and this year have learnt to expect it and plan accordingly, especially with on the bike "break-through" workouts. The day after a challenging training session I can feel fine in the morning, but by mid afternoon tiredness begins to ooze into my very core. I feel extremely weary and just can't wait for an evening of relaxation. I'll let my body guide me and back off for two days if necessary. It's taken me a long time to allow myself to do this and it's only through the likes of yourself exhorting on the importance of rest that has "given" me permission to do it.
Hi, having done a hard hilly 35km tt on saturday i felt ok yesterday and did a good quailty workout but today my legs feel very stiff and terid so this may show DOF and DOMS
Hi Joe,
It happens to me in the gym sometimes if i push the boundries a bit. But TBH i love that feeling!! Not that I love pain but I like to feel the areas where I've worked.
My wife recentently went back to the gym after time out to have our child and the same thing happened to her..
I try not to lift again until the soreness is nearly gone! I think all the mirco tears need to repair themselves first. Is this right or wrong in your opinion? or how many days after would you go back to the gym?
BMcC
Hi Joe
I too have experienced D.O.F in the past but I blame it primarily not recovering correctly. If I could use an excerpt from your book, recovery begins before you start your workout. In fact I go a little bit further, recovery is 24/7. You have to treat it that way. What I mean is this, whether its sleep, food, your periodization block program, everything that goes on in your daily life including your family life, you must keep thinking recovery recovery recovery.
Its only with time and experience but more importantly after I suffered a knee injury (an oblique Meniscal tear) that I took stock and re evaluate my situation, how to recover as quickly as possible at the same time no loss to my cardio, that I relised that I wasn't recovering properly. I found since the start of my recovery I'm more conscious of my form, whether I'm running (albeit low mileage and low intensity), bike work and even on the cross trainer I'm focusing on my body position. I use a Polar RS800 watch and when running I'm focusing not so much on my %ofRHR but on my cadence. I noticed that my cadence was around 80-82 which is pretty poor form especially when I should be around 90. It will take time to adjust, but once I keep the intensity low I'm sure I will adjust. Even sometimes I introduce short intervals where I increase my cadence up to 100 but keeping my pace the same. It just mixes things up for me and makes the workout more interesting to study later. The less time my feet stay in the air the less force is applied to my feet when they hit the ground therefore less chance of injury Another aspect that I found that helped with recovery was drinking a 4:1 carb:protein mix while training. And finally Joe I'm a huge advocate of aqua running. I can't say enough of it. Doing intervals in the water is a great way of increasing your VO2 and at the same time very little chance of injury. Recovery, Xtrain to help with D.O.F, btw did I mention recovery! ;)
Hello Joe,
and thanks for constantly sharing your knowledge with us!
Speaking about "D.O.F", I would say I have felt very explicitly in the days following an Ironman race. I'm usually not that bad in the day after but it will often be worse the 2-3 days after.
I'm no expert in this area but I constantly think if that's not related to our body deep depleting vitamins_or_something_else that takes more time to sintetyze, hence the "delayed fatigue". Possibly there's something left immediately after the race, so we're OK for the following hours, but then even if we take care of nutrition post-race it will take a while for the body to absorb the nutrients. It's just a theory of a non-expert.
PS: again, thanks for sharing your knowledge with us, we highly appreciate it.
For sure. My usual training cycle is Saturday Sunday Wednesday. I always feel muscle fatigue the greatest on Tuesday. Mondays I feel tired but there is still some strength.
It's the same with events the second day hurts more that the first day after it.
Hi Joe,
thanks for an interesting post. I often experience the same - quite fine the day after but very tired two days after. What do you recommend to do? Have some moderate training one day after the hard workout/race and very light two days after?
Thanks, Tomas
yes, with weights mainly. today was my frist session with weights in a long time, so I will follow back up when soreness kicks in. but it's usually 2 days post weights.
with endurance events, I dont notice that as much. Usually if I am going to be sore, it is the next day.
I experience this every now and then. I believe it's real for sure.
Joe,
I'm familiar with it. I typically
mistake the delayed fatigue for either illness or lack of attention to nutrition followig a long or hard day. It's much easier to understand the delayed fatigue now that I train with a powermeter. No matter how much sleep I get, how smart I am with my on bike or off bike nutrition, a ride that registers a TSS of over 200 is usually going to result in multiple days of fatigue. For this reason, I'm doing less and less volume during my Build cycles---the big days just take too long to get over.
Definitely experience this. Hard to put a finger on the symptom or cause. It's not muscle soreness, as you've noted. Sometimes it's a tired lungs sensation. More often I feel like I can workout in a very specific aerobic zone but trying to go above (or below) that zone results in disaster, form breaking down, etc. Maybe form is the key? Main muscles are up to the task but secondary muscles are burned and allow form to break down? Could have a psychological component but I've had enough of these that started out with me in a great mood, wanting to workout that I sense something else. Good luck with the quest.
Interesting enough I find that the day after a hard workout after a rest period of as little as two weeks I find that I am fairly strong; however I can barely move two days after the workout. I really find it interesting in that if I really change the muscle groups and use new ones I have not incorporated in my sport of triathlon, it can really ache and hurt two dyas after. I am a firm believer that if you reintroduce yourself to weights or sport you have not done for two weeks or more, take it easy on your return, this will keep you a little more pain free, and let you train again earlier. I must also add that this onset was not nearly as bad when I was 10 years younger.
I had a bit of time off from work and I distinctly remember last year doing a tough ride on Palomar Mountain outside San Diego. The day after I did "normal" 30-mile ride and surprisingly felt great. The day after that (2 days after Palomar) I rode with a buddy of similar fitness and I couldn't keep it together after about 15 miles in, even up shallow climbs he was waiting for me. He wasn't hammering either, I was just spent.
No, not me. My level of fatigue decreases more or less linearly with time, albeit with big jumps from a good night's sleep.
Hi Joe, if you're taking requests, perhaps you might consider doing a book that specifically tackles the issues that older endurance athletes face? I know in my case as a 45 yr old returning to competitive cycling after a 20+ year lay off, I've been amazed by how different your approach to training needs to be as compared to when we were younger. It really is a different game and I've only been able to find piecemeal stuff out there that's targeted toward doing things smart traningwise when you're over 40+.
Adam--Thanks for the suggestion. You might check out my book, Cycling Past 50 even though you are not quite there yet. Good luck!
Joe,
thanks for the great blog and sharing your knowledge and passion.
I have felt this more and more as I've gotten older (I'm 47). Do you think this is related to aging and not recovering as quickly?
My question is, would DOF be less intense if the recovery work done on the day AFTER the hard workout/event is sufficient, and/OR should most of the recovery work be done on day 2, OR should there be 2 full days of recovery (easy effort level)?
Jennifer
Jennifer--Thanks for your comment. There could be many ways to address this based on seasonal needs. For example, you could have a moderately stressful workout on day 1, a very stressful workout on day 2, and then go easy on days 3 and 4 before repeating. Or perhaps very high stress on day 1, low stress on days 2-3, very high stress day 4, etc. I'm sure there would be a unique individual response to these schemes, and age could very well be a factor, as could be experience, current fitness level, the type of sport, potential for injury and more.
Definitely happens for me. Especially noticeable after a really long day of training. If I do a long Sunday then I can do hard intervals on Tuesday, but on Wednesday my PE for the same workout is much higher.
I get this effect a 2 points in time after doing a Body Pump class after weeks of not doing it:
1) As per the DOMS, 2 days later
2) Or, immediately after doing a cycle workout of more than an hour medium intensity the next day
Is there really such a thing as DOF? I mean are there any studies showing that (for example) power output the day after a hard race is the same as on race day and falls two days after?
I guess many people are still full with adrenaline and all other kinds of hormons the day after and therefore may not feel that bad. As "they come down" the "happy feeling" will vanish and fatigue arises
Just my thoughts ..
I've three times now felt like a rock star the day after a race then trained my limiters while they were fresh in my head only to realize the heavy load I'd given myself, after which I required a week completely off to get back on the bike. I now know to allow a few days between very hard workouts so as not to dip too deep into fatigue.
Joe, I experience DOMS two days after just like your blog stated. I raced this past weekend ( very hilly 43 miles ) and then a crit the next day. My legs felt weak during the crit yet I was able to hang in and finish with a very strong sprint for second place. The very next day ( 1 hour recovery ride ) had my legs feeling "full". Fortunately this week, my next day is a rest day. It will take a awhile to warm up tomorrow but I know I can expect most of the soreness to be gone. Thanks for all your blogs.
My experience has been this is very true and I don't have an explanation except to guess that is has to do with the body's chemical repair process producing some kind of byproduct similar to Lactic Acid while working out. This byproduct or mechanism taxes the energy levels that are being channeled into repair and not available for other energy requirements. When I use a recovery drink with Glutamine my DOF is much less reduced. I could be wrong but this supplement seems to help a lot.
Hi Joe, No question DOMS is a multiexperienced painful reality. But I don't agree on a delay in fatigue after a hard workout (and after being back at normal adrenalin levels after a race). My observations (42yrs, cyclist, averaged 500h/y training over the last 5yrs). Muscle soreness apart, I would define fatigue as a body's cry for sleep, any kind of relaxation technique or nutrition. Very long aerobic efforts don't have an effect >24h; I feel always sharp and ready for an intense workout day 2 after a long workout. I guess I experience a linear decrease in exercise dependent fatigue. Hard plus long killer workouts (also races) cause a delay of some hours before fatigue breaks in. I now that after a race I can risk-free drive during the next 5h a car. Then, every 1h a 15min break for a nap. During the first 8h after a race precise appetite (protein-rich...). And during the evening the urge to relax (massage, sauna, coach potato) and early to bed. Next day, legs not too bad, motivation for training ok; easy ride. 2nd day, DOMS, no bicycle for me, I do trunk exercises, swimming; but I am pretty motivated and despite sore legs wouldn't say that there's an increased level of fatigue compared to day 1. Maybe I am not pushing hard enough to experience DOF...
Great Blog, congrats to you and congrats to all those leaving comments of such high quality.
Peter
I'm curious Joe, what are the ramifications to training with DOMS? I often am getting on my bike feeling a bit sore during my build/peak/race period weeks. The only week my DOMS is lessened is on a recovery week.
Kenny M--I think athletes sometimes get muscular fatigue and muscular soreness such as DOMS confused. At least when I ask my clients if they have been sore they often tell me how fatigued their legs have been. DOMS would imply that if you deeply probed the muscle with a finger you would have a somewhat sharp pin. It would also be painful to stretch the muscle. This would be similar to what you would experience after a heavy weightlifting session. If you have that nearly all the time from riding then something is either wrong with your body or your training. Daily DOMS would pretty much stop you from training. So I expect you are describing fatigue which can seem like soreness.
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